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The Cold Cold Ground by Adrian McKinty
This interview with mega bestselling author Adrian McKinty is a little different from our normal Behind-the-Book Q&As because this one is not about a specific book at all (though you should all go out and read The Cold Cold Ground because it’s phenomenal.) No, today’s interview could be called more of a Behind-the-Industry Q&A because we talk about the misconception that “men don’t read”, why this idea persists and we share a few reasons as to why these headlines keep popping up.
This interview came about in the coolest, simplest way after Adrian posted on Twitter that he only had 3 men sign up for his book club.
This was his exact quote:
“our monthly book club now has THREE men in it (up from 2 for the last year or so) come on blokes, reading fiction is: a) fun b) lets you live all these other lives c) teaches you weird stuff/improves your vocab & empathy”
Naturally, I agreed 100% so I chimed in to let him know about Books & Biceps, our crew of 30K Sophisticated Meathead readers and I asked if he’d be down to explore this topic a little bit for us. He said “yes” and now, less than a week later, I’m pumped to share this interview with Adrian McKinty.
We cover men reading, dad books, sore backs, the gender make-up of the publishing industry and more. This one is important and fun. And don’t forget to check out all of Adrian’s books here and follow him on Twitter.
ONE
FINKEL: Before we get into our main topic, you posted the other day about writing from the New York Public Library and you shared your back pillow. My kids make fun of me ALL THE TIME for bringing back pillows or lumbar pillows to coffee shops and libraries when I write, but they’re game changers. I only started bringing them a few years ago. What put you over the edge to bring a pillow with you? Death by a thousand hours of writing with a sore back on a wooden chair haha? Do you have a favorite brand? The only thing about it that stings is the acknowledgement it implies: we’re old.
MCKINTY: Yeah mate, I LOVE working in cafeterias, pubs, libraries but if you're going there to actually work and not just dick around you need to prepare yourself which, for me, means having the laptop fully charged, having a lunch plan and having adequate back support - I don't want to be on a roll and then wimp out and have to go home because I'm hungry or my back is on fire. That's ridiculous; so every time I'm going to work somewhere I'll bring my bloody pillow and to hell with the naysayers.
TWO
FINKEL: Since we’re talking about sore backs, let’s discuss dad books. Somehow the phrase “dad book” has become the way people describe any book that a grown man would like. It’s rarely used in glowing terms. More like, “oh, that’s just a dad book”... Even though the topic might be amazing. For the most part, these books are on fascinating topics: History, military, adventure, classic movies, sports, etc… A case could be made that “dad books” should just be named “awesome books for guys”. Do we need to rebrand this whole phrase? Or should we double down? Should book stores have huge sections in front with a big sign: DAD BOOKS HERE and it’s loaded with history, military and pop culture books on movies and sports biographies?
MCKINTY: That's an excellent point and I'm with you entirely. We should double down and insist on a dad book section which would I suppose include military history, history, the Patrick O'Brian novels, hard s/f, thrillers, noirs, sports biographies and sports books and maybe popular physics. That's all stuff I gravitate to, although I do read kinda everything. So yes a dad books section for guys, get them into the bookstore!
Here's one wrinkle though...in the dad books section you will only meet other dads. I rarely get approached by young women making conversation in a bookshop but when it does happen it always happens in the Romantasy section by amazed women who can't believe a man shares their interest, which I actually do as an old epic fantasy veteran.
THREE
FINKEL: And now we’re on the topic that brought us together. This idea that “men don’t read”. You posted about how few men in your book club there are and how guys don’t read much fiction… And of course, we’re a newsletter of mostly guys who read a ton of topics, including lots of fiction. I have my theories about why the publishing stats say men are reading “less” than ever, but do you have a working theory?
MCKINTY: When you go into any publishing house in New York or London now it's about 80 percent women to 20 percent men. The book business is basically run by young women. Maybe this is a hard reflection of the economy reality that men aren't as important consumers of NEW books. In libraries, which skew to an older demo, the split to me still seems fairly 50:50. I'm damned if I know the reasons for it. Some people say that men are listening to podcasts in place of books but women listen to podcasts too! Are men gaming, sports betting, fantasy football playing? I don't know. I go to the gym 3 days a week and it's always depressing and amazing to me that I'm the only man in the sauna with a book. You can't have your phone in there so they're just staring into fucking space.
FOUR
FINKEL: If you could snap your fingers Thanos-style and make one big change instantly in publishing that you think would have more men reading, what would it be? How would it affect the way things are done and the books guys are introduced to?
MCKINTY: So if I have Thanos style powers it wouldn't be aimed at publishing it would be aimed at influencers. I'd have Rogan and those guys rave about books they've read and how cool and fun they are and have a dedicated book segment in every one of their pods or media. Publishing houses are in the business of making money and if the demand is there they will sniff it out and cater to it.
There are prominent male role models who tweet about books who make lists that are so goddamn curated and worthy that, to me at least, they're a bit sus. But at least they're talking about books, so I won't name them or knock them. I'd spread the message that books are fun and I'd like to see an increasing cohort of men rediscover how much pleasure is to be had by reading.
FIVE
FINKEL: When you’re coming up with a concept for a book or the initial idea for something like The Chain or The Island, do you have any reader demographic in mind at all? To me, those are such compelling hooks and ideas that anyone who likes thrillers would like those books. The logline gets you instantly and your reputation for delivering on that premise is enough to buy for most readers.
Obviously, your mega bestsellers speak for themselves… The challenge for authors like us may be: How do we get guys who usually don’t read to check out one of these books? That’s where I think the missed opportunity is. Getting these books into the hands of guys who are watching shows/movies in the same genre and saying, “try reading this, you’ll dig it!” I think audiobooks have made inroads with this. What do you think?
MCKINTY: The Chain and The Island are thrillers and very different than my noir books, particularly my DI Duffy series. In noir its all about mood and atmosphere and the slow accumulation of tension. With a thriller economy is everything. The book needs to move. The Chain and The Island were deliberately written with that injunction in mind.
I don't think it's a particularly good idea to try to get people to read because a) it will make them a better person or b) make them more empathetic or c) will change their life or whatever. Maybe it will do those things but the reason I want to read a book is because I think it's going to be interesting and I'll have a blast reading it. Roger Ebert said that movies were a machine for generating empathy, if they were only that, movies would have died out a century ago. Movies and books need to be engaging. Fortunately there are a million different ways to engage a reader.
We also shouldn't be slut shaming people for reading the genre they love or reading comic books or reading the same book 50 times. They're reading, they're on our side, let's keep them on our side.
SIX (BONUS QUESTION):
FINKEL: Where do you get the next book you’re going to read from? I’d imagine you get sent a ton of ARCs or at least offered them. And you have plenty of authors close to you who have books out regularly. How do you balance reading books from people in your world whose work you enjoy to authors you’re a fan of to just discovering fiction? Do you browse a library or bookstore still and see what grabs you? That’s my move. I like to roll into a bookstore once a month and just cruise around with nothing set in my mind to buy. No genre or topic. Nothing. Then I’ll spot a cover that looks interesting and boom, done. I’ve discovered some very cool books that way. How about you?
MCKINTY: I do get a ton of arcs and most I re-gift unread. I love to read but I completely follow my whims about what I'll read next as should everyone. If you're grimly making your way through the list of the worlds best novels or NY Times books of the year or whatever reading will always be homework. For me reading is never homework it's an utter joy and one of the most important aspects of my downtime. If reading isn't fun you've been reading the wrong bloody books and you should get thee to a bookstore and investigate.
Check out all of Adrian’s books here and follow him on Twitter.
For a long time billionaire Bryan Johnson was the “don’t die” guy, spending $2M/year to become the youngest biological man in his late 40s on the planet. This was, of course, a completely unrelatable quest. But a while back I was at an event where he spoke and I found his talk to be the opposite. He was weird, for sure, but also self-deprecating and funny and I wondered how long it would be before he moved onto something else other than endless blood tests, supplements and plasma injections.
Turns out, his next thing might be the most relatable thing for dudes ever.
He is now using all of his resources on a quest to dunk a basketball for the first time in his life at 48-years-old. He is 6’ and 180 pounds and not in any kind of excellent basketball shape. In this case, he’s a regular guy trying to do a thing so many regular guys think about if they’ve never done it. And he’s chronicling all of it here:
Now, I admit. I might be the perfect audience for this. I am 48. I am 5’11”. I am 200 pounds. I play pick-up hoops every Friday morning and I would LOVE to dunk. I will be watching this closely. Plus: explosion off the ground will help my explosion off the wall and off the blocks in swimming, so if I adopt some of this in my training, I’ll let you know.
I am just over 2-months out from my big fall swim meet at the International Swimming Hall of Fame in Fort Lauderdale. That means it’s time for me to dial in my sprint butterfly workouts and I started this week.
Here was Wednesday’s workout, borrowed from 10x Olympic gold medalist Caeleb Dressel. I really enjoy sprint training more than anything else because I love to crank the speed up to 100% and then recover fully before doing it again. I get to compare times over and over and tweak what’s working and what’s not. It’s awesome. Here’s the dry land workout I’m incorporating as well.
NOTE: We sold out of the new Bear Brawl bookmarks pretty quickly, so I just ordered another batch. If you didn’t get a chance to see them, I made this quick Instagram video here before I sent the last bunch:
If you want one, it’s simple:
1) Pre-Order the book with a link below.
2) DM me a screen shot of your order with your address.
3) I’ll send it out ASAP!
You can pre-order Bear Brawl on AMAZON HERE, or at BARNES & NOBLE HERE or at BOOKSHOP.ORG here. Appreciate you all! Or just visit BearBrawl.com and have fun finding out how you’d do in a fight with a bear!
Thanks for reading - Jon
Jon Finkel is the award-winning author of Macho Man: The Untamed, Unbelievable Life of Randy Savage, 1996: A Biography, Hoops Heist, The Life of Dad, Jocks In Chief, The Athlete, Heart Over Height, “Mean” Joe Greene and more. His books have been endorsed by everyone from Mark Cuban, John Cena and Tony Dungy to Spike Lee, Kevin Durant and Chef Robert Irvine. He has written for GQ, Men’s Health, Yahoo! Sports, The New York Times and has appeared on CBS: This Morning, Good Morning Texas, Good Morning Chicago, and hundreds of radio shows, podcasts and streams. Jon was recently profiled in The New Yorker about the awesome community he’s built around his Books & Biceps newsletter. They describe him as “a gym rat’s Reese Witherspoon”. Reply to this email for any media requests. He is the Editor-in-Chief of Midlife Male and a Top 10 US Masters Swimmer in the 50 and 100 butterfly.
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